Tuesday, September 1st, 2015

VIDEO & RECAP: Tercera Caida 12/26/12 featuring CMLL & AAA representatives!


Panel (left to right): Miguel Reducindo, Jose Manuel Guillen, Enrique Yniesta, Bernardo Guzman, & Miguel Fonseca

Tercera Caida aired their year-end show on Wednesday (12/26) and it featured a panel discussion on the state of lucha libre. That seemed to be the common theme these past few days as Tribunal Televisa Deportes also had a show with a similar theme featuring AAA and CMLL wrestlers. El Hijo del Santo even chimed in with his state of lucha libre address were he ripped on a bunch of people by both calling them out publicly and not so publicly with his final resolution being about the same as everyone else who tends to do these shows featuring wrestlers or representatives from both promotions. The usual “let’s work together” line, which while it might be nice for fans to hear is far more complicated to put together or agree upon. Not to mention Hijo del Santo spent most of his column ripping the people he thinks that should work together.

The Tercera Caida panel consisted of Miguel Reducindo of CMLL, Miguel Fonseca of AAA, Enrique Yniesta from Box y Lucha, and the hosts Jose Manuel Guillen and Bernardo Guzman. Prior to introducing their guests, Bernardo mentioned that all three worked in different promotions and worked in different capacities within their promotions. Both Miguels were then introduced as part of the press/PR departments for their respective promotions. There’s not as much known about Miguel Reducindo, but Fonseca from what Konnan and others have said is involved in some capacity within the booking team in AAA and he also writes for the AAA site and for Superluchas.

Enrique Yniesta was probably first seen by those of us who watch a ton of lucha on CMLL Television. If you watched the CadenaTres show over the years, he was the guy seated front row that the luchadores always seemed to hit topes on. He began doing ring announcing and I think his first semi-big gig doing that was the IWL iPPV show from last year. He’s ring announced for several indy groups within Mexico City. He’s also ring announced on some AAA shows. I made a joke about him getting tope’d at a CMLL show and breaking his arm (he had an arm injury that required surgery not to long ago) and was written off CMLL TV and re-appeared in AAA. I don’t know if he got my joke, but he did respond. Anyway, he was banned by CMLL and mentioned it on twitter several months ago.

They discussed a number of topics, but at some points you kind of felt that the dueling Miguels didn’t want to recognize the other’s existence.


They analyzed what they felt were the top 3 events of 2012, Todo X El Todo show headlined by the triangular match between El Hijo del Santo vs. Angel Blanco Jr. vs. Hijo del Solitario, Triplemania XX and CMLL’s Anniversary show. CMLL Miguel focused on the CMLL show and AAA Miguel focused on Triplemania. Then Jose Manuel asked CMLL Miguel if he watched Triplemania and he said he didn’t. They then ask AAA Miguel and he kind of stumbles a bit and says he watched highlights of the Anniversary, but also mentioned its difficult to watch everything due to also watching All Japan, New Japan, TNA and other shows as well.

CMLL Miguel said there were about 12-13 thousand in attendance for the anniversary show, but Enrique doubts that and thought there were more people that attended the New Mistico debut. CMLL Miguel told him that there were less at that show and mentioned there were empty seats in the lower portion of the building.


Bernardo points out the low attendance at Arena Mexico shows over the past few years. CMLL Miguel points out that lucha is down right now and that its difficult to fill a building when you run the same place 3 times per week. Mentions that CMLL usually runs twice at Arena Mexico and once at Arena Coliseo along with nearby arenas in Puebla and Guadalajara. He then mentions there has been increase in attendance for some shows recently and thinks the new headliners moving up like the New Guerreros, Titan, Terrible and Rush have helped. Enrique points out that it might be a generation issue (i.e. fans having to get use to new talent) given that CMLL has elevated a lot more new guys while AAA has the established main event talent.

They discuss the problems with why there is less people attending lucha shows like the economy in Mexico, security, and the oversaturation of lucha due to the amount of shows on television as well as running same venues and area.


AAA Miguel Fonseca mentions his favorite moments were Los Mexitosos, Ricky Marvin & Super Crazy, wrestling against Halloween & Daga from Arena Lopez Mateos which was taped for the AAA Fusion show and Texano jr. winning the AAA Mega Title from El Mesias at Guerra de Titanes.

Enrique Yniesta focused on two wrestlers for AAA he praised Taya Valkyrie and mentioned she was trained by Lance Storm and for CMLL he praised Titan.

CMLL Miguel Reducindo talked about the Blue Panther vs. Negro Casas hair match and praised Titan as well! Jose Manuel praied the Guadalajara wrestling school and CMLL Miguel mentioned how it was down for awhile, but in the past few years the talent coming out like Titan and Triton and before them Mascara Dorada has shown the quality of talent coming from that area.

AAA Miguel mentions Daga and Fenix and also points out how different the two promotions are in how they have been handling young talent. He points out how CMLL has younger talent in the main event and semi-main event mix with veterans and his own promotion, AAA, has mostly veterans at the top and how its actually been far more difficult for the younger talent to move up in AAA. He did point out that Daga and Fenix are guys who have moved up in 2012.

Enrique mentions Samuray del Sol, now Octagon Jr. in AAA.

Jose Manuel jokes about the two Miguels seated separately before pointing out Terrible and Texano Jr. are the current champions for the two promotions.


They discuss the year of Los Oficiales losing in stipulation matches and also appearing on various shows for different promotions and being very professional. They praised the independent talent in IWRG and other places. AAA Miguel mentions getting to see a ton of talent due to the Quien Pinta Por Una Corona contest in various parts of Mexico.


They ask both representatives how many wrestlers are on each roster. AAA Miguel says that AAA has 90 wrestlers and CMLL Miguel mentions 150 in CMLL. That’s actually pretty accurate. It also can be part of the problem for CMLL since they do have to find work for all those wrestlers, which CMLL Miguel did admit to it being difficult to do at times. He said a lot of that roster is younger talent.


They discuss the increase in extreme wrestling in Mexico. AAA Miguel mentioned it wasn’t his cup of tea and so did CMLL Miguel. Enrique pointed out that there’s also some pretty great talent in some of those extreme promotions and some of them were showcased on one of the recent AAA shows without doing extreme wrestling.

They mention wrestling in itself is pretty extreme and mention seeing the wrestlers after a match and how they deal with the aches and pains from their matches. Not just from a hardcore match, but from a normal match.

Dragon Lee/New Mistico & Samuray Del Sol/Octagon Jr.

They had a discussion over the new wrestlers taking over a new old gimmick. They speak a bit highly of the New Mistico, who has spent most of his time injured, which Enrique does point out, but I don’t know if he’s had a chance to really have a significant impact for CMLL.

Samuray Del Sol is taking on a junior name, so it isn’t as hard for him and Octagon is well over a decade past his prime. I’m not sure if fans quite remember him. You have your older fans who remember him as a significant part of AAA, but most of the newer fans only know that he’s been in AAA for a really long time. Less pressure for Samuray Del Sol.

I also don’t know if either guy will be around for too long. New Mistico’s always hurt and Samuray Del Sol is from the US. I assume his main goal is to at some point make it to WWE or TNA.


They recap the number of luchadores who toured Japan including Ozz & Cuervo in All Japan (WrestlingBay watermark!), AAA in Pro Wrestling Wave, Ricky Marvin & Super Crazy in NOAH, Rush, Angel de Oro, Negro Casas and others in New Japan.

Alberto Del Rio, Sin Cara and Rey Mysterio in WWE. They ask both Miguels if they would welcome back either Rey Mysterio and Sin Cara. AAA Miguel said they’d love to have Rey Mysterio back before he hangs up his boots. CMLL Miguel was asked about Sin Cara/Mistico and kind of pointed out that he personally would love to see Mistico back, but doesn’t see it happening in the next few years.

Jose Manuel asked CMLL Miguel why we don’t see that Averno (the one in Japan) in CMLL. Uh-oh…He points out a lot of luchadores work differently in Japan than they do in Mexico. Also points out Super Crazy doing the same.

Bernardo mentions the foreign talent that arrived in Mexico. For CMLL, the alliance with New Japan brought Hiroshi Tanahashi. Talked about others like Kurt Angle, Prince Devitt, Carlito, etc.

They interrupt to discuss a dream match of Amapola & Marcela vs. Fabi & Mari Apache.

They switch to talking about Mil Mascaras being inducted into the WWE Hall of Fame.

Discussed the three Parkas teaming up to take on Super Crazy, Raven & Tommy Dreamer.


Enrique Yniesta’s Picks

Wrestler of the Year: Texano Jr.
Female Wrestler of the Year: Sexy Star
Best Mexican in Foreign Country: Sin Cara
Match of the Year: XMW match from AAA FUSION TV.

Miguel Reducindo’s Picks

Wrestler of the Year: El Terrible
Female Wrestler of the Year: Amapola
Match of the Year: Blue Panther vs. Negro Casas from Dos Leyendas show

Miguel Fonseca’s Picks

Wrestler of the Year: Texano Jr.
Female Wrestler of the Year: Sexy Star
Mini Star of the Year: Mascarita Dorada
Best Faction: El Consejo
Tag Team of the Year: Joe Lider & Vampiro

Jose Manuel and Bernardo force the two guys to pick wrestler of the year from the opposing promotion. CMLL Miguel says he doesn’t follow AAA that much (didn’t say he’s never seen a show! People calm down!) and makes a safe pick with Texano Jr. AAA Miguel then makes his safe pick of El Terrible.

Jose Manuel mentions Polvora vs. Titan and the wrestling school ciberneticos in IWRG.

Bernardo Guzman picks Alberto del Rio as the best Mexican wrestler. Jose Manuel talks Ricky Marvin. Bernardo comes back and mentions La Sombra.

Then they start trolling CMLL Miguel by bringing up if AAA and CMLL can work together. AAA Miguel knows his boss is okay with him saying yes to this. Poor CMLL Miguel has to think about his job says he doesn’t see it happening.

They ask the panel what was the biggest prize lost this year as far as masks and hair go and everyone but AAA Miguel and Bernardo say it was El Terrible’s hair. AAA Miguel went with his promotion and chose Mascara Ano 2000 Jr’s mask. Bernardo chose Angel Blanco Jr’s mask.

Overall a fun show. Some stuff they talked about like the picks for 2012 were ridiculous. Vamp and Joe Lider, tag team of the year? In what planet? No idea why Enrique picked Sin Cara as best Mexican in a foreign country. He spent most of the year injured and if not for Rey Mysterio he’d have been a forgotten man by now. Everyone has their opinion, so wait until I pick Mije for best of 2012, so those of you upset that I ripped your picks can respond to my pick! :)

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